No man sky also barely has a story and has zero voice acting. It’s apples and oranges, just because they’re both fruit doesn’t mean they can be compared
Comment on Bethesda Is Responding to Negative Reviews of Starfield on Steam
Raz@lemm.ee 11 months ago
No Man’s Sky has had no loading screens during gameplay, and space to planet transitions on full planets, since what… 2016?
The Creation Engine is just too damn old.
CaptnNMorgan@reddthat.com 11 months ago
Adalast@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Except you just compared them in saying they are both fruit. In fact, saying they are both fruit is finding a commonality between them when comparing. There are many metrics on which Apples and Oranges can be compared. They are different colors, have a different internal structures, and different juice content. These are negatively correlated comparisons. More positive correlations would be that they are both roughly spherical, provide vitamin C, and grow on trees.
I have always hated that expression. You can compare anything since comparison is just the act of identifying similarities and differences (positive and negative correlations). One can make meaningful comparisons between and apple and a suspension bridge if the situation calls for it.
petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
Ohhh my godd, me too. It’s so anti-intellectual.
To anyone who might care, you can identify an apple as a low-quality orange, but that doesn’t also mean the apple is a low-quality apple; they’re optimized to different ends. That is, I think, the point of the expression.
But, if we’re trying to evaluate them on something like taste, which is entirely subjective, yeah, I’m comparing those shits. And, I’m going oranges all the way.
CaptnNMorgan@reddthat.com 11 months ago
You shouldn’t compare apples and oranges because they are both great but for different reasons and purposes. It isn’t anti-intellectual to recognize that apples are way better for pies than oranges are but if you want some amazing juice and don’t want to go through a whole process to make it good; oranges are the way to go.
This and the many other examples I didn’t want to fill this page with are the reason why it’s a saying. It’s much faster than listing reasons why they are different and I personally feel it shouldn’t at all be taken literally.
zeze@lemm.ee 11 months ago
How is that relevant when I’m exploring a barren planet, just gathering resources? That’s exactly what NMS has, without loading screens.
Cyberpunk has a story and voice acting- but no loading screens like Starfield’s cities. That’s despite Night City being a much larger city than New Atlantis.
mellejwz@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s relevant because it’s there. If you don’t play those parts it doesn’t mean it’s there. They put the time in other things more important to the game than transitions. Also, the engine is completely different.
zeze@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I do play those parts, I know it’s there, and I’m asking how that somehow explains why their broken engine can’t render the whole city when doing that is clearly possible on normal hardware.
CaptnNMorgan@reddthat.com 11 months ago
If you don’t like Bethesda games just come out and say it. Those are two games that provide completely different experiences to anything Bethesda has ever made.
Do I wish Starfield had less loading screens? Sure, but the only thing I’m really upset about is that it doesn’t show the ship animations every time I take off and land. But that’s an immersion issue and Starfield is more immersive than either nms or cyberpunk either way.
As far as technical issues go, I couldn’t play it when I had popOS installed but since I switched to Windows I’ve had zero issues on a 3080ti
aidan@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They are completely different games though. Watchdogs 2 had less loading screens than Hitman 3, but that doesn’t really mean much to say.
wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 11 months ago
They are compared because they both are advertised as filling the same niche, of space exploration with emphasis on exploration.
aidan@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Except they don’t really? And I didn’t see that much. Starfield to me seemed like it was being advertised as for RPG fans, and that they would have a lot of dialogue. And that space was just a setting, not the main character.
zeze@lemm.ee 11 months ago
How does being a different game justify having loading screens between barren parts of the planet gathering resources? That’s the same activity people do in those areas in No Man’s Sky.
Cyberpunk doesn’t have any loading screen inside the city, but Starfield has multiple for cities that are a fraction of the size.
The whole game is broken up constantly by this, and having a story doesn’t make that necessary.
aidan@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m not saying it to justify it, I’m saying that not having loading screens doesn’t make No Man’s Sky a better game. I think Star Citizen is a better comparison to Star Field in terms of style- and is much more empty.
Nudding@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m not saying it to justify it, I’m saying that not having loading screens doesn’t make No Man’s Sky a better game.
It makes it better in terms of loading screens.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 11 months ago
“Engines” are not static things. What we call “Unreal Engine” goes back to the 90s.
These comments always bug me as a programmer because it’s like someone calling a 2023 Camero old because it doesn’t have the acceleration of a 2023 Mustang… The “age” almost certainly isn’t the problem, it’s where the effort has or hasn’t been put in to the engine and more importantly the game itself (e.g., carrying on the metaphor, the Camero might be slower getting up to speed because all the R&D for the last 3 years was on a smooth ride).
applebusch@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Yeah to be honest what strikes me the most about companies like Bethesda is just how little they’ve improved over the decades. There’s nothing stopping them from making major improvements like removing loading screens, adding vehicles finally (I wonder if the ships are really a hat like the train in fallout 3), fixing the buggy ass collisions and physics, or any number of dumb shits they just keep leaving in game after game. It really speaks to the institutional inertia and spaghetti mess their code must be.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 11 months ago
I would assume those things are just not prioritized by management because they’ve never been things that have caused sufficient outrage… You can’t exactly use “look we fixed physics” in a marketing video to sell a new game. Maybe you can use “look we have vehicles”… but what’s the number of people that will really care? What % will that increase sales?
e.g. maybe someone would care if EA made your need for speed character able to get out of the car and walk around… Do I care? Nah.
(I bothered to look at the Wikipedia page and) they added multiplayer support to Creation Engine for Fallout 76, that was a huge undertaking.
applebusch@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I mean fixing these things can definitely increase sales, but you’re right not in the sense that they are directly marketable. The thing that makes games really blow up is word of mouth, people recommending them to their friends, and you get that best by making a game with overall quality. It’s basically a given at this point that Bethesda games are buggy messes that get fixed by modders. Every time you have a major bug, game crash, or save corruption it takes you out of the world and forces you to remember you’re playing a game that barely works, which makes you like it less. All of this hurts sales, if not today in the future. So yeah, they probably aren’t prioritized by management, but management is wrong. They often are.
Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world 11 months ago
That’s true, but the comments are valid when talking about Bethesda games
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Creation Engine is static. Others, you are right, change.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 11 months ago
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_Engine
Case and point
Nihilore@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Case in point
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Just slapping number 2 at the end doesn’t mean it’s better. That’s like how Microsoft made Edge browser by forking IE11 and it’s suppose to be better. And how big of a joke is volumetric lighting and “real-time global illumination”… hahaha. Oh my. Source 1 had that when Half-Life2 was released. Advancement.
Here’s an in-game example of that global illumination.