Comment on [News] Steam Deck officially hits over 12,000 games Playable and Verified
MJBrune@beehaw.org 1 year agoThe package managers and official repos for most distros would be better thought of as lego blocks to build an OS from - they have no concept of OS and application separation, and splitting installation of an OS across multiple physical drives doesn’t really make sense.
The packages for Blender, steam, etc, and typical Userland apps are in these repos. The package managers are not the “Lego blocks” only. They are the utilities, user apps, and libraries you need. They are everything in one place. That’s a large point of Linux. Everything you need is in the repo.
Also, repos are distro related. You can’t use Fedora repos on Ubuntu. Originally you couldn’t use any distro’s repos on any other distro’s repos. With Ubuntu and its offshoots and arch and its offshoots, we’ve started to see repos grow to multi-distro but to say that they have no concept of OS is wrong. The whole reason there are distros is so that specific distros can configure things to their liking. This is why things like Debian and Ubuntu exist. It’s why OpenBSD exists. Again, a large selling point for Linux users is that all your packages are configured to be used with your distro.
Flatpak and Appimage are very specifically not what I am talking about. They aren’t typically supported by distros and don’t include distro-specific fixes/configurations for a lot of things.
telemachuszero@kbin.social 1 year ago
Yeah, userland packages for things like Blender and Steam do exist in most distro repositories. But they make no distinction between packages that provide software like that and packages that provide core OS services + userland (systemd, pipewire, coreutils, cups, a desktop environment, and so on).
See distros like SteamOS, Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite + universal-blue, openSUSE MicroOS, and Ubuntu core as examples of modern distros that make use of traditional packages as the building blocks for the base OS, combined with modern application distribution methods like Flatpak and Snap to provide desktop software. Use of the package manager for software like Blender is explicitly discouraged by all of these.
Distro specific fixes and configurations shouldn't be necessary as long as the OS provides what the application platform needs (desktop portals, pipewire, display server, dbus, print server, and so on). Flatpak doesn't even prevent distro specific repositories if it's really necessary either; Fedora ships with their own Flatpak repository in addition to Flathub.
So what you say you want (better control of or isolated and relocatable end-user software installation) already exists, it's just not being done at the traditional package manager level - and I haven't heard about any development effort going towards changing that.
MJBrune@beehaw.org 1 year ago
Those distros are different than what I am talking about. Those are immutable distros that preserve the preinstalled system base. It’s not at all what we’ve been talking about.
telemachuszero@kbin.social 1 year ago
You've decided that it has to be the traditional distro package manager providing the solution - but that isn't going to happen, because those have been designed to manage a single installation of interdependent software with no distinction made between core system libraries or services and end-user applications. The solutions to that problem - which also make it extremely simple to fix issues like the one you have with a single config file - led to the development of Flatpak and Snap. You can accept the solution or live with your own self-imposed limitation.
Some traditional mutable distros also ship with Flatpak + Flathub configured out of box and present the software alongside their own distro-specific packages - Linux Mint, PopOS, Clear Linux, CentOS, and Fedora Workstation come to mind.
MJBrune@beehaw.org 1 year ago
I don’t have hope for Linux becoming a major desktop OS anymore. It doesn’t seem like a priority. So I agree, distro developers trying to create an environment that would win over the Windows crowd seems like it would never happen because they don’t care to. It’s fine, different oses for different use cases.