Comment on Elon Musk May Have Made a Huge Mistake on Full Self-Driving That It's Too Late to Correct.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 1 month agoeven if you CAN rely solely on vision, why hamstring yourself?
Their stance is that by using lidar OEMs are hamstringing themselves on solving vision because they are so reliant on it. They spend less time and resources perfecting vision so they never truly solve the problem. From their perspective you got it backwards.
and there’s no good reason… just add extra sensors
The more sensors you deal with, the more your attention gets divided. You aren’t laser focused on one thing.
The extra sensors also cost a lot of money, you can’t put waymo’s sensor package onto millions of cars that consumers can buy when the suite is 10s of thousands of dollars (and originally well over 100k).
By focusing on vision where the system can be put onto millions of cars, you can get massive amounts of extra training data and training data is going to be a huge part of solving this problem.
You might not like the reasons, or their stance, but it’s not such an unreasonable position to take. Mobile Eye even cancelled their next gen lidar project after seeing improvements in vision and radar. What happens when they keep seeing improvements in vision and now radar isn’t needed?
I don’t know if you’ve ever used AP but all the crazy headlines you see about it are idiots in cars being idiots. As a L2 vision only system it works very well.
If you wanna blame Elon for convincing people to be idiots, sure, you can do that, but that has nothing to do with the actual approach they are taking.
pupbiru@aussie.zone 1 month ago
i get that… but… vision is kinda shit. why not use all the tools at your disposal? like literally “x ray vision” is something that we see as a super power because it’d be so useful - radar gives us that
vision is an approximation of things like lidar. can you get a depth map out of vision? sure by why not just measure it directly and then you’re not introducing error by your model literally hallucinating
kinda but also the last 20% takes 80% of the effort… solving a lot of easy problems with more information will lead to a better short term outcome, and then when you’re getting good results then you can solve from 80% to 85% then 85 to 90 etc across your whole sensor suite
so they though? you can buy hobbyist ultrasonic sensors for literally a couple of bucks, lidar for a few hundred - sure that’s not at the grade that you’d use for cars, but at some point it’s an economies of scale problem. they’re not actually that expensive for a commodity “good enough” sensor package
correct - i understand them, but as an engineer it’s just wrong when you’re talking about one of the most dangerous activities that humanity collectively engages in (driving)
i think this could be the sticking point - i don’t think any extra sensors are needed, just like i don’t think seatbelts or air bags etc are needed… but… they’re helpful and improve the safety of people in and around the car
agree, and i totally think driverless is the way to go - humans are far worse drivers than machines are right now without any improvement
… however, better isn’t perfect, and when it comes to safety simply ignoring tools because of some belief that eventually it’ll be fine is misguided at best, and negligent at worst
absolutely that too! their systems aren’t “drives itself no problemo” and that’s how they’re marketing it
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I don’t really have much more to add, but just wanted to say I appreciate the conversation we had.