To be fair, a great percentage of human to human communication is also an attempt to trick each other that we’re intelligent.
Comment on All this bad AI is wrecking a whole generation of gadgets
ch00f@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Mostly unrelated, but since this is going to be a dunk on AI thread anyway, I think what’s feeding all this hubris around AI is that it’s essentially tricking us into thinking it’s intelligent. It’s an incredible tool for compressing and organizing information, but it isn’t really smart.
And I had this thought watching a video last night of Apollo the African grey parrot. This bird has the Guiness World Record for being to correctly identify 12 different objects. But that he can speak a language that we understand doesn’t make him any more intelligent than many other animals. And when left alone without a prompt he’ll just mumble nonsense or in other words “hallucinate.” That he gets the words in order is just something that he was trained to do. It’s not his natural state.
Anyway, I feel like AI is kind of like that. Our language-based psychology makes it seem more intelligent to us than it actually is.
pennomi@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
ch00f@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If that were true, how come the tech bros aren’t investing in humans?
KeenFlame@feddit.nu 2 weeks ago
Because they aren’t on the blockchain
theneverfox@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
The record is now like 26 in a minute or something, by a guy who has done videos on his bird’s training for years. I think the bird’s name is Apollo
They have arguments over what things are, like you can’t convince Apollo a lizard isn’t a bug, because Apollo has understood a bug to be a little critter he could potentially eat. You can’t convince him ceramic tile isn’t made of rock, because he’s kinda got a point
Apollo babbles to himself when he’s alone too, but you know what? So do I. Especially when I’m trying to pick up a foreign language, I’ll practice words until they feel natural on my tongue
And everyone seems so quick to forget Koko or label her an exception. She basically spoke in poetry, understood mortality, and described herself as a good gorilla person when asked what she was
Animals understand, it’s just rare to find ones that are motivated to sit and communicate on our terms. Every “special” human trait, from language to culture to sense of self and abstract thinking seems to be pretty common, we keep finding it in many animals so we keep moving the goalposts
ch00f@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The video I linked is literally of Apollo.
Apollo has understood a bug to be a little critter he could potentially eat
How can you know that? He only knows a handful of words. The lizard probably looks more like a bug than like a cup or Wario. He’s familiar with the phrase “what’s this?” and “what made of?” If he had any real understanding, why didn’t he just ask those questions to expand his vocabulary?
I’m a big fan of Apollo, and he’s a lot of fun to watch, but his use of language is not demonstrative of a deeper understanding.
And regarding Koko:
Patterson reported that Koko invented new signs to communicate novel thoughts. For example, she said that nobody taught Koko the word for “ring”, so Koko combined the words “finger” and “bracelet”, hence “finger-bracelet”.[22][promotional source?] This type of claim was seen as a typical problem with Patterson’s methodology, as it relies on a human interpreter of Koko’s intentions.
Other researchers argued that Koko did not understand the meaning behind what she was doing and learned to complete the signs simply because the researchers rewarded her for doing so (indicating that her actions were the product of operant conditioning)
theneverfox@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Okay… Well it goes back to my point, you’re looking at this like animals are machines, despite all evidence
Apollo doesn’t know 26 words, he knows dozens, even hundreds. He can identify the composition of novel materials based on the framework taught to him - not always correctly based on our understanding, but there’s an internal logic. He tests the hardness, the sound, the appearance (the primary sense for birds, even more so than humans) and he makes an educated guess based on what he knows
Koko begged for a cat, despite never having seen one outside of picture books. She was offended when they gave her a cat shaped toy. She grieved when they told her the cat was hit by a car, and later articulated understanding the cat was dead
My mom’s dog knew dozens of names, when my mom said “theneverfox is coming over tomorrow” she’d get excited, and wait by the door the next afternoon - not the same day (I was her favorite)
And I was her favorite because I could read her body language, I knew when she had an itch and she could tell me where, and she only trusted me to hold her because I knew when she felt secure and when she wanted to get down
My dad got a cockatoo when I was a child, and she trusted no one - until I started making origami in front of her, and decided to give them to her. She was fascinated by how I folded it, and would try to unfold it when I gave her little boats. Two days of that, and we became friends - she would fly down where I pointed and back onto my shoulder because it amused me…I didn’t train her, I never fed her, we just formed a bond… Except she would attack everyone else, so she was sold soon after
I was dog sitting an abused rescue who would barely let me put the leash on her to walk her - aside from when she needed to go out she wouldn’t be in the same room as me, even when food was involved. Then I sang ave Maria, and she watched from upstairs - and then she came down, and I became the second person she would let pet her
I’ve gotten deer into petting range and seagulls to approach me within inches - no food involved, just mirroring their body language and trying to understand.
You can try to explain it away, but animals are happy to communicate - they just have to be curious and you have to meet them hallway
You can try to explain it ask away, and most do, but that’s pseudoscience - taking the answer and fitting it back to observations
Animals have their own wants. That’s undeniable. The idea that they’re doing it mechanically and humans aren’t is insane
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
My son has Apple assistant (Siri), and I have Google Gemini. For shits and giggles, we had them talk to each other… literally have a conversation… and it got stale very quickly. There’s no “person” behind artificial “intelligence”, so you can see just how limited it gets.
I’ve always said that if you know a lot about a topic, you can very quickly see how AI is really stupid for the most part. The problem is that if you ask it a question that you don’t know the answer to, then it for sure seems correct, even when it completely hallucinates the response.
The danger is that not everyone has enough critical thinking skills to question the correctness of an answer, so they hear what Siri or Gemini told them as fact… and then pass that knowledge onto other actual human beings. Like a virus of misinformation.
ch00f@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I brought this up to my mom who responded with “yeah, but there’s a lot of incorrect information online anyway.” This is true, but AI strips away 100% of the context for that information, and if the AI people have their way, there will be no other portal online with which to get a second opinion.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Here’s the thing: before AI, most information came from an author or organization, who had to stake their reputation on the content they create. If the information they provided was false, low quality, misleading, etc… they paid a penalty for it in a loss of credibility (and even income).
But with AI, that doesn’t happen. You can generate 1000 articles at the click of a button, post it everywhere, and there’s no backlash because the author doesn’t exist.
I think in the near future, you’ll start to see certification for human-generated content. I know that movies have started to disclose whether AI generated content was used or not, so the trend is that people want to know.
ahornsirup@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
It’s not even a lack of critical thinking skills, necessarily. Companies don’t exactly highlight the fact that their AIs are prone to hallucinating. I’d be willing to bet actual money that a lot of users aren’t even aware that that’s a possibility.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Funny enough, if you question Gemini enough, it will eventually cave and admit that it’s answers aren’t always right and that it’s still improving. LOL
The problem is, as I suggested, you already need to know what the correct answer is in order to effectively cross-examine what it told you.