You should check out some of Jeff Geerling’s videos. He’s gotten Portal 2 working on a RaspberryPi5 with an external AMD card through Box86. If Valve invested the same programming/engineering team into that project the way they have with WINE/Proton then it would likely end up just as polished. I super don’t agree that they will switch to ARM though, AMD are working wonders with low-power gaming.
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jacksilver@lemmy.world 2 days agoI didn’t think Translation layers were nearly good enough for that, otherwise why wouldnt more people use macs for gaming?
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
DupaCycki@lemmy.world 1 day ago
In the case of Macs it’s not an issue with the ARM architecture, but with Apple. Since they dropped support for some libraries a few years ago, new versions of wine (and proton) stopped working on Apple Silicon. That’s the main and pretty much only reason why you can only play like 13 games on newer Macs.
As for Linux, ARM support is still in its early stages. From my experience it’s not even ready for regular daily use. Might depend on the device though. M1 Macbooks run pretty good with Asahi.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
They created the Game Porting Toolkit a while ago that basically mimics WINE but via Rosetta 2 (their x86>ARM translation layer). I just don’t think a lot of devs have taken them up on it and for some ridiculous Apple reasons they don’t let consumers just try games.
Also absolutely no idea what you’re talking about with Linux on ARM. The RaspberryPi has existed for ~15 years at this point, the platform is far more mature than Windows on ARM and rivals macOS for support. ARM isn’t a monolith though, like amd64 is. So, thanks to a lack of working with Linux devs, the Snapdragon Elite X isn’t particularly well supported yet. This is also why Asahi isn’t actually a super fair comparison, because Apple doesn’t release anything so it’s had to fully reverse engineer everything that a CPU/GPU does.
DupaCycki@lemmy.world 1 day ago
They created the Game Porting Toolkit a while ago
Hmm… Must have missed that. I’ll need to take a look. Might be the exact same thing I mentioned and I just had no idea it was already released.
The RaspberryPi has existed for ~15 years at this point, the platform is far more mature than Windows on ARM and rivals macOS for support.
I wrote “From my experience” and “Might depend on the device though.” Also, RaspberryPi is not a daily use device. At least not for the vast majority of people.
If Linux works on ARM for other people - great. I’m hoping to be able to switch to it sometime in the near future. However, the last time I tried it was horrendous. A lot of programs I use were completely unavailable, with no compatibility layer that I know of. That was about 2 years ago.
That said, I also tried Windows 11 on ARM around the same time and it was great. Practically everything worked out of the box and worked flawlessly. It was basically the same experience as on amd64.
jacksilver@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Thanks for the info. I assume when you say that they dropped support for some libraries, you mean those libraries are no longer being maintained for the new Mac arm processors?
I’m not super familiar with how portable different libraries are against similar architectures, but assume the major issue is Mac arm chips differ enough from the mass market that progress on Linux arm won’t directly correlate to any progress with macs?
DupaCycki@lemmy.world 1 day ago
After introducing Metal (their own proprietary graphics api), Apple killed OpenGL support and never implemented Vulkan support. Almost every single video game nowadays uses either DirectX (Microsoft’s proprietary API) or Vulkan for 3D graphics. 2D games use OpenGL and Vulkan. OpenGL and Vulkan are both open source and cross platform.
Windows supports everything, Linux everything except DirectX, and MacOS (for Apple Silicon devices) only supports Metal. You can still play OpenGL games on Intel-based Macs. Steam tells you which games won’t work on recent Mac systems.
In order for a game to run on ARM Macs, it has to either be ported to Metal, or there needs to be a compatibility layer like Wine and Proton. However, neither of these two work, since Apple no longer supports OpenGL or Vulkan. Theoretically, it is possible for people to write a new compatibility layer, specifically for Metal. The problem is, nobody wants to, because it’s a lot of work (as usual with development for Apple devices), and you never know when Apple drops support for some other libraries/APIs/drivers.
Additionally, Apple seems to be working on their own Metal translation layer. Leaks show impressive performance in Cyberpunk 2077. However, nobody knows what the availability will be like or when it releases.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
You have literally no idea what you’re talking about:
Game Porting Toolkit is Apple’s new translation layer released on 6th June, 2023. Game Porting Toolkit (GPTK) combines Wine with Apple’s own D3DMetal which supports DirectX 11 and 12. This is a less user-friendly method of installing Windows games on Apple Silicon Macs compared to CrossOver or Parallels, however it unlocks the ability to play many DirectX 12 games. A lot more games work using GPTK, however, games that use anti-cheat or aggressive DRMs generally don’t work.
Not only has Apple well and truly released that, but Codeweavers also develops a compatibility program based off WINE called Crossover.
grinceur@programming.dev 2 days ago
because of drivers, i use a radxa orion o6 with an amd gpu as my main desktop and it is actualy pretty good for gaming
Mwa@thelemmy.club 1 day ago
Ig when the Steam Deck 2 releases it becomes fine?
Stampela@startrek.website 1 day ago
Look, I have a Mac, I like the ecosystem but have a handful of Linux machines (including my laptop) so I’m, ahem, not the average Mac user. You go in the App Store and enjoy whatever games are there. Or hear that on Steam they’re less expensive and go through that… then discover that there’s a boatload of Mac games that simply won’t work on your OS because they are 32 bit and Apple dropped support for that in 2019 (meaning that from 2019 no Mac, even Intel ones, can run those games). Then, there’s the Crossover option: a paid product that will allow you to install Steam for Windows and any game compatible with that platform. It’ll use GPTK for compatibility and it’s a big supporter of WINE, so a purchase helps open source…
But: how likely do you think that an Apple user will go that far off the beaten path?