Comment on U.S.: Responding to the “gunshot detection” tool ShotSpotter, a Chicago police officer opened fire on an unarmed teenager

ianovic69@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• stoly@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Cultural narcissism. People are obsessed with their rights but don’t think in their responsibilities.

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• p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What is even the purpose of this post? If you’re going to be so ignorant of US history, at least don’t act so high and mighty about your implications.

  How do Americans still allow guns to be so easily available?

  The 2nd Amendment, for one. It’s a constitutional amendment that hasn’t changed since the Constitution was written. It’s also the 2nd, and not say, the 20th. It requires a 2/3rds majority in Congress to change a constitutional amendment, and that sure as fuck ain’t happening with today’s batshit crazy GOP. They can’t even keep their own party together with the right-wing crazies having fights with the extremely-right wing House majority leaders because they have the gall to “compromise”, which is the whole fucking point of Congress.

  Besides, all of this talk of “banning guns” is unproductive. If you want to make change, start with regulations. Canada’s got a shit ton of guns, and nobody’s bitching about them, because they are properly regulated.

  Isn’t it well past the point where incidents involving guns should almost never happen?

  What the fuck does this question even mean? Is what “well past the point”? Why would “incidents involving guns” should almost never happen? Brits have gun bans, and they still have gun incidents.

  Banning a thing doesn’t make it go away. I thought we learned this shit with the War on (some) Drugs.

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  • stoly@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Your arrogance is compounded by your ignorance in assuming that they are from the US. Lemmy is an international service.

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    • p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I know they aren’t from the US, because an American wouldn’t ask such nationally-ignorant questions.

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  • ianovic69@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The 2nd Amendment, for one. It’s a constitutional amendment that hasn’t changed since the Constitution was written, back in 1787.

    Isn’t that all about bearing arms so that the people can overthrow the government? Yeah, good luck with that. Who are you counting on, the gangs? School shooting kids? Rednecks? Good ol’ boys? Are they all getting together and marching in force as one?

    ain’t happening with today’s batshit crazy GOP.

    Then vote for people who make those changes for the better. If Trump gets in again I fear for us all, not just you guys.

    all of this talk of “banning guns” is unproductive. If you want to make change, start with regulations.

    That sir is exactly what I’m proposing. I agree with you completely, Canada being a great example.

    What the fuck does this question even mean? Is what “well past the point”?

    Good point. I think I was being rhetorical, which wasn’t very useful. I just find it crazy that the whole country hasn’t got together on this one thing at least. I know it’s not easy, but making it more difficult for people to shoot each other must be important to everyone?

    Brits have gun bans, and they still have gun incidents.

    Very rarely. But that’s not a good argument. I’m not sure about this kind of thing but I think that’s what they call whataboutism. Imagine if there were less gun crime in the US than the UK. Why not at least try?

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• Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I mean there are a couple issues that make gun control difficult in the US:

  • Huge number of guns already in the country. Even if stricter gun laws were passed there are so many guns in circulation that it will still be easy to get illegal guns. Many of the guns have been sold or changed owners multiple times meaning there’s no database/etc that will let these guns be easily tracked down or collected.

  • it’s easy to compare the US to Europe due to having the same economic output and looking somewhat similar in size on a map, but the US is about twice as large as Europe with less than half of Europe’s population. A huge amount of the country is rural, and they want guns for wild animals/security/etc.

  • Relatively unsecured Mexican border. Funnily enough this is one thing I would think both political parties would be in agreement over. For any serious gun control to work, the Mexican border would need to be secured. It’s probably a moot point because of the first point though, but you can’t try to resolve the first point without having more control over what enters the country.

  • This isn’t a US specific issue, but 3d printed guns are a thing now, and are getting better all the time. I think countries that have largely been gun free are going to have increasing issues with criminals having guns, and their law enforcement will have to adapt.

  So basically there are a lot of people who want to own guns, and many of them have legitimate reasons for some gun ownership. Passing strong gun laws will be problematic for those people, while being unlikely to actually reduce the availability of illegal guns. Gun laws would probably help with school shootings though since I think most of those guns are legally owned guns stolen from family members.

  I’m sure people have some great counter arguments for my points, but my main point is it’s not a simple as “ban guns”. And I’m not even getting into 2nd amendment and the idea that the American people have a responsibility to stay armed enough to hold their government accountable through force if needed.

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  • ianovic69@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Thanks for your reply and interesting points. I’ll try and argue against them as I see it.

    there are so many guns in circulation that it will still be easy to get illegal guns.

    True. However, is that a good reason not to make it more difficult? Isn’t any time a good time to do that?

    A huge amount of the country is rural, and they want guns for wild animals/security/etc.

    This is about regulation and those who need guns for certain situations would be catered for. I’m not really aware of similar levels of incidents in Canada, which I think is due largely to regulation.

    For any serious gun control to work, the Mexican border would need to be secured.

    I’ve no idea what the figures are, but I’m guessing that a very large amount of weapons involved in gun crime are made in the US. If you take that out of the equation, gun crime will reduce. Border control won’t make as much difference as regulating guns, if at all.

    3d printed guns

    It’s definitely a concern, but I’d be more concerned in places that don’t have strong gun regulation in the first place.

    Passing strong gun laws will be problematic for those people

    Good, it will make it less likely for those who shouldn’t have guns to get them as easily. If you should have them then you should be able to make a strong case for having them. That’s not a bad thing.

    while being unlikely to actually reduce the availability of illegal guns.

    As I said, I don’t see how it wouldn’t. Regulation means enforcement. Nothing will stop it completely but making it more difficult will reduce it drastically. And it’s not just the supply, it’s also the ownership. Making it more difficult to buy and own guns will make supply go down because many of the people who just want them won’t bother, it will be too much hassle to be worth bothering with.

    my main point is it’s not a simple as “ban guns”.

    I’m not advocating for a ban, just strong and enforced regulation.

    2nd amendment and the idea that the American people have a responsibility to stay armed enough to hold their government accountable through force if needed.

    How’s that going for you? Seriously, you think the people out there committing gun crime are going to join together into some kind of super people’s army and take down the government?

    Or all the fucked up kids who steal dad’s gun to shoot up their school?

    No, all the dads will join the neighborhood watch groups and march on the White House. Any time now.

    Sorry to be cynical about it but that’s nonsense. I do think that Americans should get together and vote for leaders who regulate guns. That would be a good place to start.

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  • herrvogel@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    but the US is about twice as large as Europe

    Excuse me? When did that happen?

    The US is about twice as large as the EU. Europe is not the EU.

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