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Comment on In the Hamas/Israel war, why does Palestine have "hostages" but Israel has "prisoners"?

NewDark@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Many Palestinian prisoners aren’t charged with crimes and have “secret evidence” held against them. Given Israel’s track record of lying and colonialist activity, I’ll leave you to decide if they actually do have that evidence. aljazeera.com/…/more-than-600-palestinians-held-b…

On top of that, the vast majority of the actual crimes are incredibly minor like rock throwing, and it doesn’t matter if you’re a child. The conditions and treatment in Israel prisons for Palestinians is incredibly grim as well.

There’s a thin vaneer of an unjust legal framework, and the aims of Israel aren’t as explicit to hold them for trade, but they’re a whole lot closer to being hostages than most people care to admit.

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eatham@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You are really using a news source owned by the qatar govt for issues related to qatar?

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- machinin@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  How about this source, the actual human rights organization that produced the report?
  
  hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2136
  
  Administrative detention constitutes a draconian violation of a person’s rights to liberty and due process. International humanitarian law permits this detention without trial only as an exceptional measure when there is a substantial security threat that cannot be otherwise avoided. But Israel’s use of this measure toward Palestinians is not exceptional at all; Israel holds hundreds of Palestinians from the West Bank in administrative detention for periods of months and even years. Furthermore, administrative detention orders are based on “classified material” such that the detainee has no way to refute the allegations against them. And the Israeli military can extend the period of administrative detention without limit. The infringement of rights of administrative detainees is exacerbated by the fact that many of them are held inside Israel, in blatant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits the transfer of inmates outside the occupied territory.
  
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  - eatham@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Seems like a good source.
    
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- NewDark@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Why not? They’re a great source unless they’re reporting on something related to Qatar’s own government / interests.
  
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  - Kleinbonum@feddit.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The hostage deal was negotiated by Qatar, the Hamas leadership is living in luxury in Qatar, Qatar is seeking to gain more influence in the future of Gaza.
    
    Is this really the right moment to blindly trust the Qatar state owned news source with its reporting about a Qatar negotiated deal related to a conflict that Qatar has a vested interest in?
    
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    NewDark@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    The hostage deal was negotiated by Qatar, the Hamas leadership is living in luxury in Qatar
    
    You’re spelling out how they’re acting like a neutral party here.
    
    Qatar is seeking to gain more influence in the future of Gaza.
    
    It’s a destitute open air prison. Come on now.
    
    Is this really the right moment to blindly trust the Qatar state owned news source with its reporting about a Qatar negotiated deal related to a conflict that Qatar has a vested interest in?
    
    I don’t blindly trust their reporting. It was one search result. Most of the details on Israeli actions and policy come straight from Israeli sources like B’Tselem.
    
    Is it not true? You could tell me that with something backing it instead of complaining about a reputable source.
    
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  - eatham@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Well qatar govt funds hamas, so id say it falls within their interests.
    
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    NewDark@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    They act as a mediator for Israel to fund Hamas.
    
    Not saying they’ve never given any of their own money to the governing body of a destitute open air prison, but that wouldn’t be unique to them.
    
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  - SCB@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Qatar is balls-deep in this conflict, my dude.
    
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CerealKiller01@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Yes, but also no.

Palestinians who are held without trial are held in administrative detention, that’s usually done if the person poses an immediate danger, but the evidence isn’t up to the legal standard (a judge still has to approve the arrest). It’s also used against Jewish citizens (though admittedly much less. IIRC there are two Jews held in administrative detention right now).

Absolutely none of the Palestinians held in administrative detention are about to be set free, and they aren’t regarded as “standard” prisoners (they are always referred as “administrative detainees”, never “prisoners”).

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- Linkerbaan@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Ohhh they call them something else, now it’s totally different!
  
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  - CerealKiller01@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The question was about why are Palestinians in Israel are called “prisoners” and Israelis in Gaza are “hostages”, in the context of the people exchanged during the truce. The person I replied to said some “prisoners” in Israel are held without trial, to which I replied they are not called “prisoners”, and are not part of the exchange.
    
    So… could you explain the point you’re trying to make? If that’s just some general point about Israel treating Palestinians unjustly, that’s fine (I actually agree with you to some extent), but I don’t see how that has to do with the difference between two specific groups of Palestinians and Israelis.
    
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    Linkerbaan@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Well your comment is a blatant fucking lie that’s part one. Many Palestinian hostages who were kidnapped without any evidence or charges were released today. Care to address that?
    
    youtu.be/kF_xnBKftew?si=SU4NSm6Gl2PYNPkJ
    
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crashfrog@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
In what respect would the crime not matter if you’re a “child”? Minors frequently participate as attackers in Hamas attacks. If Israel didn’t apply punitive detention to anyone under 18, then every Hamas attacker would be under the age of 18.

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- NewDark@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Please tell me you think it’s justified to hold a child in prison for years for throwing a rock at a tank. Oh, or maybe they illegally walked on the wrong side of the road in the west bank. I really want to hear this.
  
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  - SCB@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I think the children should be made Israeli while being held, if caught engaging in open combat with Israel’s. 3 year sentence of “live as an Israeli citizen.”
    
    Show them who they’re fighting and they’ll stop fighting.
    
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bartolomeo@suppo.fi ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
That’s right, and a lot of people don’t know about how many Palestinians are being held indefinitely without charge in Israeli prisons. Oftentimes they are children who have been subjected to torture. And this is not something that started on October 7th, although the number of detainees has risen since then, including in the West Bank. It’s very difficult to make a case for the 2 am raids to take ~~hostages~~ prisoners in the West Bank when WB doesn’t have a Hamas government. As is often the case, the oppressors just make up laws and systems to catalyze oppression within a legal farce. Of course the truth is that Israel is commiting genocide of Palestinians in order to steal their land, but the vaneer is getting so thin that it’s making international law and the Geneva conventions a joke.

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