Comment on In the Hamas/Israel war, why does Palestine have "hostages" but Israel has "prisoners"?

blahsay@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• machinin@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  aljazeera.com/…/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoner…

  I know Israeli supporters are going to bristle at the source, but the “combatants” include 17 minors and women.

  The list of 300 comprises 33 women. The majority of the rest of the names are of boys aged 16-18. However, there are also boys as young as 14 on the list.

  Prisoners have been convicted of crimes including carrying and manufacturing knives and daggers. Other common offences detailed in Israel’s list include:

  *threatening security *illegally entering Israel without a permit *throwing stones *supporting terrorism *associating with hostile/unknown organisations.

  Also noted about minors detained by Israel:

  “The main alleged crime for these detentions is stone-throwing, which can carry a 20-year sentence in prison for Palestinian children,” said a report published in July by children’s rights organisation, Save the Children.

  Is there really any true justice in an apartheid State?

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  • CerealKiller01@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Hi, Israeli here. You didn’t really point out any misinformation, the linked article just gives some (IMO wrong and even misleading) context.

    The majority of the rest of the names are of boys aged 16-18. However, there are also boys as young as 14 on the list.

    The 14 year old kid was charged for hostile sabotage activity, gathering or association, attacking a police officer under serious circumstances, throwing stones, negligence and general recklessness, maliciously or negligently causing damage to property, arson on nationalistic grounds, weapons/ammunition/explosives. Also, it’s worth noting his trial was ongoing.

    Prisoners have been convicted of crimes including carrying and manufacturing knives and daggers. Other common offenses detailed in Israel’s list include […]

    Ehh… technically true, but very misleading. Usually, there are a few charges, some more serious than others. The 14yo kid could be described as “charged with negligence and general recklessness”, but that wouldn’t be the whole picture. Here’s a link to a list of 300 prisoners due to be released. It’s in Hebrew, but copy-pasting into google translate is good enough to understand the charges:

    www.gov.il/he/departments/…/is-db?skip=0

    In the first page, there are 2 prisoners charged with carrying and manufacturing knives and daggers. Both are also charged with attempted murder (one is 17 years old, btw).

    And regarding “associating with hostile/unknown organisations”, from what I could tell, this means that the prisoner was charged with being affiliated with Hamas. Hamas is considered a terrorist group in the US, UK, Canada and Australia (Not to mention they massacred more than 1,000 citizens). So this might be my Israeli bias speaking, but… what’s unreasonable with throwing them to prison? Would being affiliated with ISIS or Al-Qaeda not carry a prison sentence?

    “The main alleged crime for these detentions is stone-throwing, which can carry a 20-year sentence in prison for Palestinian children,” said a report published in July by children’s rights organisation, Save the Children.

    Yes, “can carry”. A 20 year sentence is only applicable if the rocks were thrown at a moving vehicle with intent to cause harm. without proving intent, the sentence is 10 years. Children are not explicitly mentioned (though the reality is that most rock throwers are minors). In practice, the courts try to avoid sentencing minors who are charged mainly with rock throwing to prison, and even when they are sentenced to prison it’s for a few months.

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    • machinin@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The misinformation is calling all the released Palestinians combatants. That seems like the Israeli’s talking point here, which is a fabrication.

      Yes, all of these people are charged by the Israeli state, an apartheid state oppressing the Palestinian people. They can make up whatever charges they want. Who believes them?

      What is it with Israeli’s and the justifications for killing and imprisoning Palestinian minors? It seems like there is some ulterior motive for removing the younger generation from those lands.

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      • SCB@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        If you attack someone with a weapon that can kill them, then you are by any sane definition a combatant

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      • CerealKiller01@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        You’re right, calling all the released prisoners “Palestinians combatants” would be wrong. Can you please point me to a source calling them that? I only saw something similar in far right Israeli news sites, who call them “terrorists” (all other sites call them “prisoners”).

        Yes, all of these people are charged by the Israeli state, an apartheid state oppressing the Palestinian people. They can make up whatever charges they want. Who believes them?

        If we assume a state-wide conspiracy, any state can make up whatever charges it wants. There’s no real way to prove that’s wrong. However, there are a few indicators I can think of - what’s the democracy index of said state? is that state’s judiciary system regarded internationally as being generally good? Do other democratic states believe said state? Has said state been caught in many lies regarding its judiciary system?

        Going by these indicators, Israel’s status is at least OK. Not perfect, and if you’d like I can point out quite a few issues, especially regarding the treatment of Palestinians, but they do not “make up” charges as a general modus operandi.

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  • calcopiritus@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I don’t understand what minors and women has to do with it. Only adult men (where adult just means >18yo) can be terrorists? The other points might be valid (or not), but just saying “there are minors and women” means nothing.

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    • OniiFam@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They don’t realize that the very first terrorist bombing against Israel was a woman suicide bomber.

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  • crashfrog@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    None of the Palestinian prisoners released today had been imprisoned for “stone-throwing.” One woman stabbed several Israelis with a knife.

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    • OniiFam@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      BUT THE HECKING WOMEN. NOOOOOOO ISRAEL IS LITERALLY ISIS!!!1! Those Israeli “hostages” taken by Hamas are all undercover soldiers apprehended by the FREEDOM FIGHTERS bravely RESISTING against the NAZI KKK Israel.

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    • machinin@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      One woman stabbed several Israelis with a knife.

      One woman was “accused by the Israeli government of stabbing people who stole land and homes from Palestinian people” is more accurate.

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      • SCB@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        If I steal from you and you stab me, you will most assuredly be arrested in every single country on the planet.

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    • machinin@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      One woman stabbed several Israelis with a knife.

      First, “was accused by Israel of stabbing several Israelis” is more accurate. And we know Israel lies. Can you really believe it? Why are they releasing her if she is such a dangerous criminal? It is an apartheid state, there isn’t really true justice there.

      Second, according to my sources, the Israelis that were stabbed were occupiers. I have very little compassion for people who steal people’s land, especially oppressed people’s land, to use as their own.

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  • SCB@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Is there really any true justice in an apartheid State?

    I’ve never seen anyone even pretend to justify how Israel is apartheid.

    You are aware that Gaza is not in Israel, yes?

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  • bartolomeo@suppo.fi ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Are you intentionally spreading misinformation?

    Some of them are freelancers, others fully employed.

    forward.com/…/shadowy-israeli-app-turns-american-…

    www.mintpressnews.com/…/286099/

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