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Comment on "We track every server you enter": the Wardogs devs are "coming down hard" on XP farms and cash exploits, even as they encourage people to grind

FinalRemix@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Good reason to avoid a game, then.

Game is a grind, why are players minmaxing the grind? Could the devs be so out of touch…? No! It’s the players who are wrong.

Narrator: it wasn’t. Organisms will always find the most efficient way to access reinforcers.

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givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Game is a grind

Tanks are a grind, its literally 60 hours of driving a truck 99% outside of the zone that everyone has to be in to earn cash and contribute.

It’s 100% going to get fixed, it’s day 5 of early access, people need to calm down. Especially since it’s 30 days to the first reset.

People are going to spend all month and not even get it. Then immediately start the grind again.

If that’s what they want to do, cool. FOBS need supplies and this is the only reason people are doing it.

For anything other than getting a tank, progression has been pretty chill.

Like, last beta people couldn’t shut up about how bad tanks were. Now people won’t shut up they can’t instantly unlock everything including tanks.

Tanks only showing up end of season and requiring a person who drove an insane amount of cargo to fobs is an almost perfect solution. I’d just say it should be limited to one spawn at a time per player to avoid one person buying a dozen tanks for their team. But again, that’s only going to be late season shenanigans, at a time when everyone else has cheap ways to deal with them.

What I have seen a lot, is younger players who are used to always being catered to hate the game. Which is fine, no one is making anyone play it. But not every game has to be COD.

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- ElectricWaterfall@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  With a grind like this and a reset I feel like me and many others may just give up grinding so long just for it to be wiped so soon feels like what was the point.
  
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  - givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    feels like what was the point.
    
    Playing the game…
    
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Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
“Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.”

-Soren Johnson, the lead designer of Civilization IV

The whole game is about making money. Without this, there are no goals. However, if players start subverting the designed mechanics for an advantage, it makes others feel like they’re missing out and they do the same.

Grind is not all negative. For example RuneScape is entirely a game about the grind. Sure, you could just give every player a “max” button, but then what’s your goal/accomplishment while playing? There isn’t one.

I agree that a grind that doesn’t have a purpose sucks. The open world Ubisoft games, for example, have you just grind pointless things that waste your time, for no reason but to extend playtime. That’s bad grind. I haven’t played this, because it doesn’t run on Linux yet, but it seems to be mostly good grind.

I’m skeptical about locking some things behind exp, not just money, though. It gives players with more hours to spend a larger advantage.

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Roucan@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think there’s a difference between min maxing the grind and using exploits to avoid the grind & get an unfair advantage over other players though no?

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- FinalRemix@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Absolutely not, no.
  
  There’s a case in some star wars game a few years back where the scoring was set up like friggin’ quidditch. King of the Hill style maps, red vs blue, but a “team wipe bonus” was 200 points to take out everyone on the other team.
  
  So red would bunch up, blue wipes them out, and then blue bunches up, waits for red toncome wipe them out, and everyone trades lile 200 points at a time. Completely fucked the game mode but using coordinated bullshit to maximize rewards.
  
  You stick a pigeon in an operant chamber and they’ll find a way to jiggle the button rather than actually peck, because it leads to more food in the end.
  
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  - Roucan@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You don’t think they should try to prevent players from “fucking” the game mode, or are you just saying there’s a different way to do it?
    
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    FinalRemix@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’m saying to figure out a better way to cater to the players. If they’re specifically not “playing right” it’s the design that’s wrong.
    
    An example I can remember was in Warframe. A specific bot would have a chance to drop the resource Oxium, but it only spawns sometimes…
    
    Exterminate missions had the most enemies in a set spawn amount. But that meant clearing the map. A “capture” mission would keep spawning enemies at high rate once incapacitating the target. So… make the guy go down, don’t capture him, and just mow down high density enemies at a high rate and maximize how many oxium enemies spawn over time.
    
    The devs basically said “y’all’re spending hours in these missions to farm oxium. New deal:” targets bleed out in 30 seconds, enemies stop spawning after a few initial waves, and oxium enemies have a much higher chance to spawn anywhere the normal variant of the enemy could spawn.
    
    They basically undid the trick to grind for it. It’s still rare-ish, but it’s not improbably hard to find even by passively killing stuff.
    
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    FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    they should just make a game mode where fucking is the goal
    
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- FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Grind is a terrible way to balance the experience.
  
  People new to the game will be at a disadvantage regardless if the players they’re against sped through the grind or not.
  
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  - Roucan@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That’s a fair point for sure. Though I like that there are phases where lvl 1 armour is more common, lvl 2 is more common, etc etc. But they could just doing to by changing the pricing over the course of the season, which may bring a fun investment aspect to their metagame. Hopefully they iron out some stuff .
    
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  - Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You’re right, but also it resets occasionally. However, this is always the case anyway. I used to play Escape from Tarkov (I recently started playing Singleplayer Tarkov again, which runs on Linux, and development was recently stopped due to a trademark warning —not copyright, they just can’t use the name), and the way streamers play is so much different to most players. They spend so much time in the game that they have a skill level where they hardly are playing the same game. Even starting from the same position, or even worse through optional challenges, they stomp the average player.
    
    There’s no such thing as an even playing field. I do think efforts should be made to minimize it, but making progression off-limits because it gives players who progressed further an advantage is a little silly. It doesn’t belong in every game, but it’s fine in some.
    
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- givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Especially since it’s stupid easy to make money and XP in the game.
  
  The exception is driving XP, with an insanely long payoff to a tank. But the biggest beta complaint was tank spam when it was easier to get.
  
  There’s gonna be frequent resets and fine tuning over the two year early access, it’s wild everyone acts like this is a finished game, even tho it’s better than a lot of triple AAA recent releases that cost twice as much.
  
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  - DillDough@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I mean the loop and progression was figured out in the mods already, just give people basic functional shit from the start and give alternatives,cool stuff, fun stuff later. Absolutely no fucking reason that the starter sniper should be a break action that can’t even kill with a naked headshot. Same thing with launchers, why the fuck is the first one (that already takes hours of grinding) anti-personel so that players are useless against a solo player driving a humvee swapping sweats to gunner or even just doing road kills…and also you still can’t do anything to choppers or AA emplacements. Honestly anti-personel explosives probably shouldn’t be in the game period outside of grenades and mortars but they absolutely should not be the first explosive unlocks.
    
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    givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Absolutely no fucking reason that the starter sniper should be a break action that can’t even kill with a naked headshot.
    
    There’s 100% a reason…
    
    You don’t start day 1 sniping, you start spotting and stay spotting. They put a gate in place that made anyone who wanted to snipe, have to also find out the value of being a team player.
    
    Otherwise snipers would take pot shots all day never hitting a shot and never contributing.
    
    I’m pretty sure the Devs even joked about it and admitted it was intentional.
    
    Same thing with launchers, why the fuck is the first one (that already takes hours of grinding)
    
    Launchers are support… Just build a fob and it ranks up crazy fast and you get the big hammer too.
    
    and also you still can’t do anything to choppers or AA emplacements.
    
    It’s rock, paper, scissors…
    
    Choppers take out mortars.
    
    Mortars take out AA
    
    AA takes out choppers.
    
    should not be the first explosive unlocks.
    
    We’re almost a week into a two year early access and everything resets in 3 weeks bud…
    
    The devs have already confirmed unlocks aren’t static or based on how good something is. A month from almost everything will be unlocked at different levels and in different orders.
    
    If you’re expecting a polished game thats perfectly balanced you should just refund now. In two years when it releases you’ll have what you want, but I’m going to play the shit out of it in the meantime
    
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myyass@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It looks like a fun game and I want to try it but any game with a grind eventually makes me bored these days, at least they took a creative approach for the grind. I played Tarkov for a very long time, grinding and having a reset was exhausting at a certain point. I know this game is early access but you know a bit part of your target audience has lives and work.

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