[deleted]

Comments

• originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  make your own/move instances? isnt, that the beauty of the fediverse?

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  • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    But… but… I need to be able to use the reach others have built to broadcast my message or muh freedom of speech has been take away!!! /s

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  • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It’s a non-solution. Self hosting doesn’t stop other instances from banning you.

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    • BillDaCatt@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Freedom of speech means that you won't be jailed by the government for speaking your mind even when your position is not popular.

      Freedom of speech does not mean that everyone gets to speak and be heard on any subject they desire to whoever they want. It also does not mean that everyone, or anyone, wants to hear it. Individuals are free to censor you as much as they want.

      Interaction is a community effort with a social contract that everyone tries to behave within the bounds of the community rules. If you break those rules, even if for a good reason, it is not unreasonable for the community to object.

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    • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So? If people refuse to amplify your message that’s not a “freedom of speech” issue.

      Sometimes I think these free speech morons will cry censorship over anything less than guaranteed bandwidth straight into our brains.

      They want to show up, use a community someone else has built to carry their message, and if they can’t, it’s “freedom of speech!”

      Let’s just put that shit away for good. Non-solution? It’s a non-problem, akshully.

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    • Lauchs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s a solution for the rest of us.

      Why should we be forced to repeatedly deal with someone who makes Lemmy worse?

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    • Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So in your mind, other places must give you a platform. What a nonsense.

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• Deestan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Man, did this happen often to you?

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Somehow I can’t reply to the other reply so i do it here:

    No i do not have one of those trouble-maker post histories. Most of the time the people who get banned are the ones who don’t follow the hive-mind.

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    • GhostsAreShitty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      “The ones who don’t follow the hive-mind.” 🚩🚩🚩

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    • ZahzenEclipse@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      There's ways to "not follow the hive mind" without getting banned. There's a reason why daily wire is able to be on YouTube and reddit for example.

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• scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I refuse to engage with this topic in terms of “freedom of speech” and “censorship.” There are no civil rights at issue when moderators of a forum delete comments. If you want to talk about petty, tyrannical behavior by the mods that’s a question of what kind of community we want to have. NOT “freedom of speech.” There absolutely have to be norms of conduct here ir the place will descend into shit. So unrestrained expression is off the table in all scenarios.

  Stop talking about it as freedom of speech and then we can get somewhere.

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• Rooki@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  On lemmy, you dont have 1 instance with that community, if a mod or admin is not good, just swap the instance and make there a better community.

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    That is the same argument as: if you are mistreated at feddex why not join UPS. Is that really a solution when all instances are organized under the same structure?

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    • Rooki@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Its the basic free market idea… you dont like company ( for our side “instance” ) A then why dont buy it from Company(“instance”) B?

      The only difference is that you can still access posts/comments from other instances after you switched.

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    • Steve@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s not the same at all for one important reason. That’s friction to change.
      There’s a lot of friction to change from one employer to another. There is practically no friction to change from one Lemmy community to another. Even if they all suck, nothing’s stopping you from making another community. If your new one is so much better, everyone will flock to it, because it’s so easy for them to do so.

      It’s the same concept as the Free Market. The friction to change is why the free market frequently doesn’t work well in the physical world. But in here, where all the friction becomes practically zero, it actually can work.

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• hperrin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Cry harder, then go start your own instance so you can moderate yourself.

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• Izzgo@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Personally, I feel it's the proper job of a mod to decide what kind of a community they want to foster, establish their rules to reflect those goals, and enforce accordingly. Not every online space has to be a wild frontier allowing the worst of online behavior. Furthermore, any person who wants such a wild frontier community on reddit or here is certainly free to make that community. If enough people enjoy hanging out with that behavior, then your community will be a success. And THAT is actual freedom of speech: make your community the way you like it, and see how many other people want to hang out with you. I promise, if I visit your community, I won't complain about being offended or aggravated.

  Most of my experience with people complaining about lack of freedom of speech have tried to force their wild frontier self expressions onto spaces where civil speech is enforced or the topics to be discussed are tightly defined.

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• JackLSauce@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Lemmy.world, by its own continuous admission, is not a free speech platform

  Community moderation simply isn’t the issue most people leaving Reddit were looking to solve during Rexit

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think I found this out a bit late. I was looking for something that allows for free speech while preventing anti-social content/behaviour.

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    • Pons_Aelius@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I was looking for something that allows for free speech while preventing anti-social content/behaviour.

      Then create your own instance, you can post what ever you want then,

      But of course, no one has to federate with you if they do not want to listen.

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    • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Attachment: media.kbin.social ↗

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• rei@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  “If this gets me banned than you are worse than spez” hahahahahahahaha, wot m8?

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I get the feeling that you are not taking me seriously or that you might even be mocking or worse ridiculing me /s

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• Kissaki@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Freedom of expression should not be subject to the whims of individuals!

  Are you saying it should be without limitation?

  Insults, hate speech, lies, prejudice, riling up conflict and hate? Ad spam and off topic?

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I would also be fine if insults, hate speech, lies, predejcue, riling up and hate and spam and off topic are prevented but legitimate speech remains uncensored.

    basically all speech that doesnt break the rules.

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    • Nighed@sffa.community ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      What are you complaining about being removed then?

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    No not at all there are limits to free speech for example screeming fire in a packed theatre.

    I don’t think it should be in the hands of individuals but it should probably be community based idk, maybe through voting or some better system. like a sort of distributed moderation instead of centralized.

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    • CaptObvious@literature.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      How much more distributed do you want it?

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• PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Probably the Lemmy users and the community mods? So, nothing different from Reddit.

  As a recent mod of another community here on Lemmy, there seems to be a weird expectation that mods are there to protect posters from each other. “They called me an ignoramus! Ban them! Ban them now!” Like…yeah, abusive language should be banned…but mods shouldn’t be a poster’s way to play bait-and-whack-a-mole.

  If Reddit mods had to deal with that shit, then I feel sorry for them.

  Conversely, there is an expectation that mods are supposed to be impartial. They’re as human as any other poster, and dealing with antagonists day-in, day-out takes its toll. After a while, it’s just indiscriminate pattern recognition: a certain pattern warrants a ban every time without discussion.

  For example, when you said this:

  If this gets me banned than you are worse than spez

  Did you look at the rules before and ask, “How can this post get me banned?” If so, then you obviously didn’t need to include this line. If you didn’t, then you shouldn’t have posted in the first place.

  If users want a particular type of community, then users should act in a way to facilitate it. Mods alone can’t do that. Mods, at most, can define and enforce the limits of what’s acceptable. But if posters routinely act in unacceptable ways, then they shouldn’t get mad when mods routinely enforce those limits.

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I myself have not made a single report.

    I consider the job of mods to prevent another 4chan. Without moderation pedo content and other awful content will flood the site. I do not bother mods because of name-calling. Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never hurt me.

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• vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If you got banned a lot of Reddit, the problem might be you.

  There were some dubious moderators, but I tended to stick to subs where i share values with the sub and the mods and things were pretty decent. If they hadn’t torpedoed mobile apps I probably would have stuck around.

  In contrast, Lemmy seems to be very lightly moderated across the board, probably because moderating is a crap load of work.

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If you got banned a lot of Reddit, the problem might be you.

    Or the problem might be reddit i.e. a problem reddit has with free speech:

    • reddit is like many other social media subject to campaigns of propaganda by companies, groups, state-actors.
    • bots are common place and are influencing discourse

    Social effects like mob mentality take place, so if you are an individualist and say it how it is you are going to be surpressed just for voicing a legitimate opinion.

    You clearly cannot question the prevalence of bots and large scale manipulation by bad faith actors (say for example a company that systematically downvotes or through their mods bans all unfavorable comments about flaws in their new product).

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    • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      🚩 🚩 🚩 🚩

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  • chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Agreed on all points. I loved Reddit and had a long lived account with a decent amount of comment karma. I dropped it cold turkey when the API change happened.

    Never had any real run ins with mods even though I had arguments with other users pretty regularly. I acted in good faith and tried to be helpful as much as possible.

    Most subreddits were fine. If you got banned all over the place, it says more about you than it does Reddit.

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• uphillbothways@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Modlogs are public here, for one. As communities get bigger and modding gets more labor intensive there's bound to be some convergence in practices, but there's also different options available as instances can defederate, new instances can be established, forks can be made of the technologies at play, etc.

  Guess we'll see.

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Guess we’ll see.

    I guess so

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• Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  All bans on lemmy are shadow bans because you will not be notified about it. Only way to find out is to go looking for your name in the modlog.

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• HubertManne@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  us man. if some place will not serve you then go someplace else. personally though I want all blocking and such to be at the individual levels but maybe some options to sign up for folks or groups block lists if people find it to cumbersome to do it themselves. I like this guy so I will trust who he blocks or whatever. trustcafe seems to want to do that but honestly im not liking the system they have of ranking every user which seems more cumbersome than just blocking toxics and such.

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  • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    How would you implement blocking at the invidual level, i take it you mean it to be content category based?

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    • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      On kbin you can block individuals, communities, or domains (instances) as a user

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• NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Freedom of expression should not be subject to the whims of individuals!

  That’s the same here on Lemmy. Yet going away and freespeaking elsewhere is easier.

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• mp3@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Nothing stops you from starting a community with the same name on a different instance, there might be a portion of the user base that is willing to join both.

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• CaptObvious@literature.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think many of us are struggling to understand your gripe because we either don’t see it or have shifted away from it here. Or our home instances have defederated the problem.

  Do you have an example to help us out?

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• athos77@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Nothing. With reddit, the size of the communities and the burden of moderating them combined (over time) to make the mods more burnt out. The mods here just haven't burnt out yet.

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• lyth@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Try hanging out in philosophy-focused spaces, some of them are pretty close to the “civil discussions on hard topics with moderation good enough to toss out manipulators and build everyone else up” sweet spot I’m always searching for

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• Public_Tumbleweed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Once I was banned for commenting Dear unflaired copypasta on r/Balkans_irl subreddit

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