Comment on Indie devs have begun adding a no generative AI stamp to their store pages

bia@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• deur@feddit.nl ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  People want pieces of art made by actual humans. Not garbage from the confident statistics black box.

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  • pennomi@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    It’s all virtue signaling. If it’s good, nobody will be able to notice anyway and they’ll want it regardless. The only reason people shit on AI currently is because expert humans are still far better than it.

    We’re just at that awkward point in time where AI is better than the random joe but worse than experts.

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    • mke@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The only reason people shit on AI currently is because expert humans are still far better than it.

      Not it’s not! There are a whole bunch of reasons why people dislike the current AI-wave, from artist exploitation, to energy consumption, to making horrible shitty people and companies richer while trying to obviate people’s jobs!

      You’re so far off, it’s insane. That’s like saying people only hate slavery because the slaves can’t match craftsmen yet. Just wait a bit until they finish training the slaves, just a few more whippings, then everyone will surely shut up.

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      • pennomi@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        I agree that those are reasons people give for their reasoning, but if history has shown anything, we know people change their minds when it becomes most convenient to use a technology.

        Human ethics is highly dependent on convenience, unfortunately.

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  • Lumiluz@slrpnk.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    What if they use it as part of the art tho?

    Like a horror game that uses an AI to just slightly tweak an image of the paintings in a haunted building continuously everytime you look past them to look just 1% creepier?

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    • AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Would the feature in that horror game Zort where you sometimes use the player respon item and it respons an NPC that will use clips of what a specific dead player has said while playing count as AI use? If so, that’s a pretty good use of AI in horror games in my opinion.

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      • Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        That’s not generative, since it’s just copying player input. Feasible without AI, just storing strings for later recall.

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      • mke@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        That can be AI depending on how broad your definition is, but it’s not GenAI, which is the main concern here.

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      • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        AI SLOP! SAD!

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    • mke@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      That’s an interesting enough idea in theory, so here’s my take on it, if you want one.

      Yes, it sounds magical, but:

      • AI sucks at make it more X. It doesn’t understand scary, so you’ll get worse crops of the training data, not meaningful changes.
      • It’s prohibitively expensive and unfeasible for the majority of consumer hardware.
      • Even if it gets a thousand times cheaper and better at its job, is GenAI really the best way to do this?
      • Is it the only one? Are alternatives also built on exploitation? If they aren’t, I think you should reconsider.

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      • Lumiluz@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        •Ok, I know the researching ability of people has decreased greatly over the years, but using “knowyourmeme” as a source? Really? • You can now run optimized open source diffusion models on an iPhone, and it’s been possible for years. I use that as an example because yes, there’s models that can easily run on an Nvidia 1060 these days. Those models are more than enough to handle incremental changes to an image in-game • Already has for awhile as demonstrated by it being able to run on an iPhone, but yes, it’s probably the best way to get an uncanny valley effect in certain paintings in a horror game, as the alternatives would be:

        • spending many hours manually making hundreds of incremental changes to all the paintings yourself (and the will be a limit to how much they warp, and this assumes you have even better art skills)
        • hiring someone to do what I just mentioned (assumes you have a decent amount of money) and is still limited of course. • I’ll call an open source model exploitation the day someone can accurately generate an exact work it was trained on not within 1, but at least within 10 generations. I have looked into this myself, unlike seemingly most people on the internet. Last I checked, the closest was a 90 something % similarity image after using an algorithm that modified the prompt over time after thousands of generations. I can find this research paper myself if you want, but there may be newer research out there.

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  • RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Honest question: are things like trees, rocks, logs in a huge world like a modern RPG all placed by hand, or does it use AI to fill it out?

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    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Not AI but certainly a semirandom function. Then they go through and manually clean it up by hand.

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      • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Ah, so this kind of tool is allowable, but not another? Pretty hypocritical thinking there.

        A tools is a tool, any tool can be abused.

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    • skibidi@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Most games (pre-ai at least) would use a brush for this and manually tweak the result if it ended up weird.

      E.g. if you were building a desert landscape you might use a rock brush to randomly sprinkle the boulder assets around the area. Then the bush brush to sprinkle some dry bushes.

      Very rare for someone to spend the time to individually place something like a rock or a tree, unless it is designed to be used in gameplay or a cutscene (e.g. a climable tree to get into a building through a window).

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      • TwanHE@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        That’s only for open world maps, many games where the placement of rocks and trees is something that’s subject to miniscule changes for balance reasons.

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  • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Then you better give up spellcheck and autocorrect.

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    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      LLMs shouldn’t be used for spellcheck that would just be a massive waste of power.

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      • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        What do you think grammarly is dude?

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    • lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      That’s not art, that’s a tool. Tools can be made better through a confident statistics box.

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      • otp@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Tools can be used to make art.

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  • otp@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    One of my favourite games used procedural generation to create game “art”, “assets”, and “maps”.

    That could conceivably be called (or enhanced by) ML today, which could conceivably be called AI today.

    But even in modern games, I’m not opposed to mindful usage of AI in games. I don’t understand why you’re trying to speak for everyone (by saying “people”) when you’re talking to someone who doesn’t share your view.

    This is like those stupid “non-GMO” stickers. Yes, GMOs are being abused by Monsanto (and probably other corporations like them). No, that doesn’t mean that GMOs are bad in all cases.

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    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I think the sort of generative AI referred to is something that trains on data to approximate results, which consumes vast amounts more power.

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      • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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  • piccolo@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Humans are confident statistical black boxes. Art doesnt have to be made by a human to be aspiring.

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    • noxypaws@pawb.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Art has to be made by people. It’s literally not art otherwise.

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      • piccolo@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        So, if a machine makes the ‘art’, its not art? So photographs are not art. The hubble telescope,or any space probe for that matter, doesnt produce art.

        Art is something that provoke emotions and expression in its observers and not produced naturally. Machines are built by people and require non-random inputs to produce something thefore anything those machines produce is art.

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• 10001110101@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I’d argue that even if gen-AI art is indistinguishable from human art, human art is better. E.g. when examining a painting you might be wondering what the artist was thinking of, what was going on in their life at the time, what they were trying to convey, what techniques they used and why. For AI art, the answer is simply it’s statistically similar to art the model has been trained on.

  But, yeah, stuff like game textures usually aren’t that deep (and I don’t think they’re typically crafted by hand by artists passionate about the texture).

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  • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Are GEN_AI bookshelves a slippery slope or slopp that artists want to avoid?

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• jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I am for the most part angry that people are being put out of work by AI; I actually find AI-generated content interesting sometimes, for example AI Frank Sinatra singing W.A.P. is pretty funny. This label is helpful to me so that I know I’m supporting humans monetarily.

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  • CarbonBasedNPU@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I actually am fascinated by neruo-sama because it really shows that if you assign a face to the ai it instantly becomes so “real” feeling.

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• endeavor@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  As a dev and foremost artist, I can see using AI to uprez images or to generate random slop you can use to find interesting shapes and as inspiration. As I learn programming, AI is very useful in finding mistakes. Instead of spending days and bothering people or engaging with the assholes at stackoverflow, you can just ask deepseek what is the issue and it will say you misspelled length.

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• burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  generative ai is a terrible tool, full stop

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