What a fantastic indie story RimWorld continues to be!
RimWorld switches engine from Unity to the devs' own, faster Waylith Engine, all apparently without breaking mods somehow
Submitted 2 weeks ago by GamingBot@lemmy.zip [bot] to gaming@lemmy.zip
Comments
warm@kbin.earth 2 weeks ago
Doomsider@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Way to show how it is done. If only Notch could have updated MC just fucking once without breaking every mod everytime.
Allero@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
I really cannot comprehend how Minecraft collected such a mod base while also being this unbearable.
So many players just end up playing old versions because mod developers cannot reliably keep up with this nonsense. The last version to have decent mod support is probably 1.21.1, and there are so many mods dead after 1.7.10, 1.6.4, or even earlier.
Some of the mods, like Better than Wolves, have it literally in their name.
Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
It’s pretty simple: Notch was never a great coder and the game never had any mod support or APIs. He didn’t support the idea of mødding the game at all.
Modders literally have to decompile and reverse engineer most of the game to add mods. Only last year did they remove obfuscation so the community didn’t have to make up their own naming for everything.
Sintinium@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I developed a mod until a year or so ago. Updates just come out too fast for it to be worth my time. If I want to fix one bug I have to apply it to 5 different game versions
Tetragrade@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
Designing stable interfaces is hard, they’re just a smol bean $4.5T corporation.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
IIRC, many, maybe most, Rimworld updates broke mods too. This one hasn’t though. That’s because this one seems to essentially just be a compatibility layer or something. What they must have done is routed all calls to Unity things to their own engine’s alternative. At least that’s my educated guess, because there’s no other reasonable way this could work.
This is still amazing. I’m not diminishing that. It isn’t changing the way the game functions though. It’s just changing how it functions.
djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Wait, like…all mods? Even the multiplayer mod? how the hell does that even work?
bigboismith@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If I recall correctly, very little of rimworld actually uses unity functionality. It’s just a “seperate” game viewed through unity
Chaf@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
That would explain why it’s one of the few unity games that does not try to burn a hole into my laptop! Was always wondering how they achieved that. Usually when I see that a game uses unity, I can already guess that it won’t run well on my machine
Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I don’t know what the other user is talking about it being a “separate game.” It is heavily data-focused though. It’s mostly C# code. As long as that doesn’t make calls to Unity functions, it’s fine, but also I’m certain they, and other mods, have. However, you can still handle this, similar to how WINE can run Windows applications without running Windows. You have a compatibility layer that routes all the calls that would have gone to Unity to your own systems that behave as close to identically as possible. If you make a call to “UnityEngine.Vector3”, for example, you just create your own “UnityEngine.Vector3” that replicates the functionality.
OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It seems like a good strategy to improve time-to-market by leveraging an existing engine, and then if you’re successful enough then maybe you can afford to create your own.
filcuk@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
I think it would be quite rate for something like this to be feasible at all. Decisions like this are set in stone before development starts, and tend to dictate the development direction.
GunValkyrie@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah because gaming companies are notorious for delivering what they promise with no deviation.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I’m not going to say you’re wrong, but it also adds a ton of complications. Presumably they wrote an entire compatibility layer to map from Unity calls to their own engine. That work doesn’t need to be done at all if you start from scratch with your own engine and targets.
You are right that they probably couldn’t afford to make their own engine originally though, and this presumably lets them not pay royalties on future sales. I wouldn’t say it’s a good strategy, but if you end up with a boatload of cash and a game with a long tail then it’s a good tactic. It’s just not something you should plan on doing.
OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Even if they didn’t plan for it and build that compatibility layer, that boatload of cash gives them a lot of options.
It seems like a classic time-to-market and “don’t step over good to get to perfect” example to me. Get a product out, start getting revenue, then make it perfect.
Rom@hexbear.net 2 weeks ago
Damn am I going to have to play Rimworld next?
DarkCloud@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Why would they write a custom engine that also breaks mods?
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Many of their previous updates on the unity engine broke mods previously - for something as fundamentally massive as changing the entire game engine, it’s an incredible achievement to have done so while preserving the functionality of the tens of thousands of 3rd party scripts.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, it seems simple - just make the new engine compatible with the old mods…
but changing engines is hard work. building your own engine is exceptionally harder.
olafurp@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
3rd party mods are often not supported and may rely on quirky unity behavior. I don’t know how much of unity they used but that sounds very impressive to me that they managed to keep mods working as supposed to all mods needing a minor update.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I passed on rimworld because I didn’t want to get the DLCs and I felt like the game needs them.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I pirated the whole kitten kaboodle. After playing an amount of hours that I don’t like admitting to, I then bought the whole kitten kaboodle. I’ve since played an additional amount of hours I don’t like admitting to.
I have a gaming PC that could play anything, yet I play a game with duplo block people.
It’s just that good. 😗👌
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com 2 weeks ago
Kit and caboodle
A kit - is set of objects, as in a toolkit, or what a soldier would put in his kit-bag.
A caboodle (or boodle) - is an archaic term meaning group or collection, usually of people.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’ll echo everyone else in that you don’t need them but also go further and say don’t get any of them to start. The learning curve is a little steep and a vanilla play to start is a good idea. Then you can pick up some quality of life mods and whatever else floats your boat. The game is disgustingly customizable. You can get nuclear power and missiles, dropships, robots, custom furniture armor and weaponry, geneticslly engineered catgirls, literally anything. It’s infinitely replayable with mods alone.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
I’ve gotten some good mileage out of it with no DLCs, just wish it had layers like Dwarf Fortress, doesn’t even have to be as many but it’s weird that you can’t at least build vertically for a few levels. I believe it’s possible to pirate the DLCs as well, but I don’t really know enough about pirating software safely to try that. I’m certainly not paying another $60 to get them.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Rimworld is literally one of the easiest games to pirate, especially for how expensive it is.
It’s just a directory, and it’s only a couple hundred megabytes compressed.
And despite all that, I still bought it in the end. All of it. It’s just that good.
And here I am, a living Rimworld commercial. And all because I pirated something.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Yeah, and I’m pretty sure they know levels would have been nice because they added them (with strong limitations). They added bunkers and caves that are below ground and have multiple layers. You can freely build them, or even freely travel through them (it acts like a new map), but they exist. Hopefully the next game they’re working on has levels, if it’s a colony manager, because it adds a lot more variety to how you can build things.
Darth_Lemmy@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It really doesn’t and it’s pretty fun and cheap. There are so many mods, like literally thousands. I personally have about 30-35 installed.
Nelots@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
A lot of people are recommending Ideology specifically here, and while that would also be my own recommendation, I feel like I need to throw in a caveat.
Ideology is an entirely hit-or-miss DLC, because the entire point of most of it is giving your colony various limitations for roleplaying purposes. If you don’t care about roleplaying then it’s probably one of the last DLC you’d want.
Though it does come with the advantage of being the cheapest DLC.
LocalAreaMan@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I like them all. Odyssey lets you build a spaceship and fly around the world. I’ve never looked back. It’s ruined all other games for me.
Meatwagon@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
The only “must have” one is ideology. But even then you don’t need it and could replace it with about 5 mods.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
IDK, I can’t imagine navigating Ideology without already being pretty familiar with the base game. Royalty might be okay? But if you don’t already know about how to manage moods or set up a freezer, you’re going to have a really frustrating time with memes like raider (let alone tree connection or transhumanists).
myyass@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I had the DLC’s bought for me but I still just play the original unless I play mp/co-op.
zoltanshields@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Nah there’s plenty of game without the DLCs imo, it’s not like a Paradox game. Even without mods it’s a lot of fun, if you like these types of games.
That being said if you’re willing to pick just one it can add a lot to the game. I put in like 400 hours with just Ideology.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
I have them but I bought the game before it was even on steam. Then I got each DLC as it came out.
Game is great without them so don’t worry about not having them. Then if you like the game you can collect them over time if you want to.
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
It’s hardware Vulkan graphics only. A friend I played the multiplayer mod with (sure do wonder how that’s compatible, they totally didn’t just tell claude to rewrite unity ig) doesn’t have Vulkan. I myself for a while played on a computer that doesn’t have Vulkan (well, technically does but most of the things I tried to run just black screened because of missing functions).
mushroomman_toad@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
All graphics cards from the last 10 years have vulkan support on Linux
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
10 years is not that long ago, it’s 2016!
They have Radeon HD 6xxx series, circa 2011. OpenGL 4.5 certified, which is basically the latest ignoring 4.6 which is just 4.5 but with some Vulkan features shittily backported.
Besides, some devices still sold today which may run Unity RimWorld at least to some extent / with enough fuckery (like ARM Chromebooks), only have GL 4.5, with the oldest chip designs themselves being exactly from 10 years ago.
TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Shocking the article left out the last surprising note on the update blog: Ludeon Studios says Rimworld isn’t the only game running on the new, homemade Waylith engine. 😉
Kyrias@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Probably because there’s no details and it probably won’t be out for years.
I was hoping for a new DLC announcement at least.
deadcream@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
There are rumors it’s based on the engine that Kitten Space Agency’s (spiritual successor to Kerbal Space Program) devs develop.
Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Not a single of their dlc has spoken to me or my play style. So a new game sounds great to me.
Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I wonder which games they will blatantly rip off this time
Meatwagon@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Every colony manager game is just a rip off of the Sims if you think about it.
DdCno1@beehaw.org 2 weeks ago
You must be new to the games industry. Ideas are cheap, implementing them properly and in novel ways is what makes or breaks a game. Developers have always been iterating on the ideas of others before them. Nobody in their right mind would call a game as accomplished as Rimworld a mere ripoff.