and that’s the secret to a good product
When the Steam Deck was still just an idea, Valve says some staff were like, "I just want that for me" and "the point wasn't even to make a product out of it"
Submitted 1 month ago by Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz to steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
Comments
yetiftw@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 month ago
And it’s why I hate capitalism as a consumer.
“People need an incentive to invent things!”
Well, if that incentive is making money instead of making a great thing, it’s probably not going to be a great thing. Great things make money.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Oh hey, that’s why I hate capitalism as an engineer. The endless pursuit of profit first rather than making good things that people want is disheartening as someone who just wants to make things that make life better
3ntranced@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Exactly, if you want a good product, have the developers make what “they” want. Usually works out.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
That’s how you end up with Arch Linux.
pscamodio@feddit.it 1 month ago
This may work if the developer is a possible client too like in this case. But I feel that’s the exception.
Do what the clients want and not what developers, designers or management want.
Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
I love this so much. It reminds me of how AMD Threadripper came to be.
Apparently Threadripper was a skunkworks project by some of the engineers at AMD that they worked on in their spare time. They wanted to see if they could basically slap together a bunch of normal CPU dyes into on mega chip with a high speed/bandwidth interposer connecting them together.
It was almost abandoned and they had to fight to get it taken seriously. But it proved to be a viable product, and singlehandedly was responsible for decimating what was left of Intel’s place in the HEDT market so badly, that after several years of failed attempts to keep up, Intel officially announced that they wouldn’t be competing in that space anymore.
It’s such a cool thing when talented and passionate people come together without having to be subject to strict marketability and just try to create something awesome and revolutionary.
The Steam Deck kicked off an entire new market for handheld gaming devices that had real power to play modern PC games. And despite a bunch of competing and copycat products, the Steam Deck is still king.
I love mine, have close to 200 hours on it, which for me is a ton. I’ve barely gamed on my main PC in the last year, it’s just so much more comfortable to play on the couch or in my bed.
Player2@lemm.ee 1 month ago
It’s just too bad that AMD is also not competing in the HEDT space now, leaving no reasonable options whatsoever
0ops@lemm.ee 1 month ago
It really shows, because it’s just a well thought out, no compromises device. I’m still crossing my fingers hoping that they’re getting somewhere with the steam controller 2 prototypes that I’m sure they’re playing with if only for shits and giggles
Maalus@lemmy.world 1 month ago
The first one didn’t sell that well, so doubt it. Which is a shame, since it’s the best controlled I ever had. If they removed the buttons and put in a joystick (or removed the right Gaben nipple) it would’ve been perfect.
triptrapper@lemmy.world 1 month ago
But so many people have decks now, it would make sense to market a dedicated controller for docked mode. At least that’s what I’m desperately hoping for.
rosa666parks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
Imo I think the steam controller didn’t take off because it relied so hard on the touch pads (the touchpads also clicked, which I didn’t like). Now with the steam deck it adds two real joysticks, and pressure sensitive touchpads which are so much better. So if they were to make a steam controller 2 it should have two joysticks as well as two touchpads. Pretty much all they have to do is make the steam deck without the screen.
AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 1 month ago
In the early days I thought it would be some niche gimmick that would never take off. Turns out it wasn’t and it’s the best handheld gaming machine ever made.
It feels good to be wrong!
cellardoor@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I adore mine. Not the best for GPU-intensive games like Elden Ring or Resident Evil 4 remake… But for essentially everything else it’s just the best.
Minecraft, 90fps Balatro, Slay The Spire, Binding of Isaac and similar… 90fps Dark Souls 1-3 - 90fps!
Very, very happy.
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I only have a switch because of my nephew. It hardly gets any use otherwise. Then i found balantro and now it’s basically a balantro machine. I do wish i had a steam deck instead of a switch.
dditty@lemm.ee 1 month ago
How are you playing DS1 at 60+ fps on your steam deck? I thought the game was limited to 60
atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 month ago
To be fair I have invested in a lot of their “niche gimmicks that will never take off”. I’ve owned the steam link and the OG steam controller (my dad still uses that controller to game, he really likes it). I love the steam deck but none of the handhelds have the right ergonomics for my little hands except the Switch, and so I use mine docked. But even then it’s a game changer not needing a huge gaming rig to play games.
MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 1 month ago
It’s also what got me to finally go linux full-time.
I had tried to a couple times before, but always ran into one too mamy snags.
When the deck was announced I thiugh to myself “that can’r work with every game, can it?” as I’d attempted that myself.
But I had to see for myself, and the Improvements in proton were staggering. And it’s gotten even better since! Who would have though Apex Legends, Hunt Showdown, and a bunch of other holdouts and anti-cheat games would be running on linux within a year of the deck releasing?
Moah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
When I heard of it, I was wondering who that was for and what was even the point. Since I got mine, I barely play on my desktop PC anymore. I really didn’t expect to live it this much.
ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 1 month ago
This is a shared experience.
Every single person in my circle gave the biggest wtf to it and when they finally got it, talk about how they rarely use their gaming PC.
semperverus@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I’ll be real, before the Steam Deck existed, I was toying around with the idea of either building something basically like it, or how to slap a Steam Link into that kind of formfactor (3d printer, breadboard shenanigans, etc.)
Was very pleasantly surprised when Valve announced exactly what I wanted. Have been happy with it ever since.
yournamehere@lemm.ee 1 month ago
still loving and using it. grabbed bf1942 from the archive.org, now playing in lan with friendo and 255 bots. epic joy.
TriflingToad@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Old games from archive.org always seem more fun than newer games. Doom is SO FUN and it was made in 1993!
helenslunch@feddit.nl 1 month ago
"And there are people [at Valve] who were like, ‘I just want that for me.’ The point wasn’t even to make a product out of it. It was just, let’s see if you can actually make something that I would want to use for that purpose.”
Seems highly unlikely Valve was dedicating valuable dev/engineer time to make a toy they had no intention of ever producing…
sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 1 month ago
Seems highly unlikely Valve was dedicating valuable dev/engineer time and money to make a toy they had no intention of ever producing…
This actually is basically how Valve works.
They have a pretty small team, and Steam is a fucking money printer.
They are a private company, not public.
That means no shareholders. No need to jam out a product to keep stock prices up, no boards of directors that also sit on 12 other boards that are all scheming to figure out how to push the whole industry toward stupid bullshit like NFT game items or ‘replace all our employees with AI’ or ‘every game is actually just a marketing tool for MTX or battlepasses.’
(The entire idea of loot boxes and in game microtransactions was basically just another ‘i wonder what would happen if, or if it would even be possible to…’ and the the steam marketplace of ingame items was born, and then basically every one else copied them, poorly.)
(Fuck, its basically the same with modern in game achievements as well.)
…
They could do nothing other than maintain their existing products and basically just coast on that forever, remaining profitable.
Because they have essentially no hard deadlines to put out some new product… this enables them to have a very loose, very voluntary, workplace culture which emphasizes quality over quantity, not rushing anything.
A whole lot of their projects in the last decade are just people saying ‘I’m gonna do this’ and then if anyone else thinks its cool or neat, they work on it too.
People are allowed and encouraged to contribute to any project, at any time, as opposed to basically all other corporate software studios that have very rigid and defined roles.
helenslunch@feddit.nl 1 month ago
I don’t know what any of that has to do with throwing millions in the garbage can…
Toribor@corndog.social 1 month ago
The more I learn about Valve culture the more I realize they definitely have teams just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. I bet there are some really wild prototypes that we never get to see.
helenslunch@feddit.nl 1 month ago
Sure, with the intention of finding a product to sell. But the whole point of this article is that they never intended to sell it:
The point wasn’t even to make a product out of it
thingsiplay@beehaw.org 1 month ago
You would be surprised how much companies experiment behind the scenes, that you never see. Prototypes aren’t actually the most expensive thing, so its totally doable, especially if you have lot of engineers hyped for that. Given that the teams at Valve produced hardware before, its only normal to get money for new experiments. Also the structure at Valve is a bit different than most companies.
helenslunch@feddit.nl 1 month ago
Sure but they’re saying it wasn’t a prototype. At least not intended to be.
Emmie@lemm.ee 1 month ago
There’s another product that probably was this and ended up… badly. Valve index
Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 month ago
Yeah, it’s really sad. VR is great for some experiences. There’s just two issues with it. The largest is the price. It’s pretty expensive for something that doesn’t have much content. The second smaller issue is that it’s too hard to swap into and out of. I can just sit down at my computer and instantly get into something, but switching to VR takes effort.
The price can probably be solved over time, assuming we keep making VR hardware. The convenience is harder. I don’t think there’s a solution to that, at least not in the near future.
Poik@pawb.social 1 month ago
You can now get refurbished for around $200. Mostly the meta quest 2. I’d be happier with something that isn’t meta affiliated, but it’s a solid headset. Considering how expensive most of the rest are, getting it down this far is pretty good. Maybe in a decade, there will be more entry headsets at this price point or lower.
Convenience: meta has hand tracking as controllers and can play games by itself so you only need to put the headset on, and theirs is much lighter than the old vives I cut my VR teeth on. The head strap isn’t great still for convenience, but there are third party straps that are much easier to put on and take off. The framework for convenient VR is there, but support is dwindling as there’s not much money in the VR market compared to the cost vs anything else in games.
I hate that most of this is about meta, but I haven’t seen anyone else really making great strides in VR. There’s a Chinese company I need to find again which apparently made super light headsets I was going to keep an eye on and forgot.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 month ago
The convenience is harder. I don’t think there’s a solution to that, at least not in the near future.
lighter headsets that work well in MR, so you don’t need to take it off to reply to a msg or find your login. you’d leave it on in mixed/augmented reality mode, then swap it back to VR to play your game.
Slowly, we’re moving towards that. I’ll be very interested to see what comes after the quest 3s / index etc.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Valve isn’t done in VR. it doesn’t feel the need to put out a headset every year.
Same with the Vive. It wasn’t the end. Index isn’t the end. When they find something they can innovate they will.
tee9000@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Warning: the following opinion has not been approved by Lemmy.
Meta has done a lot for VR and the tech is just getting started.
AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 1 month ago
A big part of the reason was that Facebook offered game studios a big upfront sum if they made their games work on whatever headset they were selling at the time in standalone mode with no major caveats. The headset only had an anemic mobile GPU, so was only capable of as much as mobile games were doing at the time. A bunch of studios took them up on this offer, and cut back their projects’ scope to be viable under the hardware constraints, so nearly everything that got made was gimmicky mobile-style minigames, and obviously that’s not what makes people want to drop hundreds of dollars on hardware, as they can get their fill by borrowing someone else’s headset for an hour.
Mobile GPUs have improved, so standalone headsets aren’t as terrible now, but we missed the expensive toy for enthusiasts and arcades phase and soured most people’s opinions by making their first VR experience shovelware.
PanArab@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I am impressed with how many games are now playable on Linux with Proton and how well they play. I might get one myself.
RacerX@lemm.ee 1 month ago
While you’re all here what controller do you use for your deck? Been thinking of getting one of the hall effect 8bitdo ones, but I’m open to trying anything.
Backlog3231@reddthat.com 1 month ago
Why would you use a controller with the steam deck? It is a controller.
Lesrid@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Some people like a lighter weight and different grips. Lots of cases have a kickstand where you can prop up the deck and use your favorite controller.
toynbee@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I like the steam deck and use it as a controller, but you could make the same argument about the switch. Regarding the switch, my answer would be that while it is a controller, it is - IMHO - a poorly designed and uncomfortable-to-use controller.
While you and I like the ergonomics of the deck, others may not. One can hardly blame those people for wanting something they feel more usable.
RacerX@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I use it in a dock most of the time.
Sheltr@lemm.ee 1 month ago
OG steam controllers for me!
Rin@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I wish they were still available
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I got a PS5 controller from a sale, even the touchpad works
bitwolf@lemmy.one 1 month ago
Just got an Ultimate 2c. It doesn’t work well in some games. Specifically Sackboy.
If I had another go I’d probably purchase the 8bitdo Pro 2 Hall edition as it can switch between xinput and direct input.
LapGoat@pawb.social 1 month ago
whatever controller is closest and convenient for me when i happen to sit down, or whichever one is charged lol.
I usually gravitate towards a wired xbox controller because its the one i have jurisdiction over in the household.
Strongly recommend a wireless mouse/kb with one of those couch cushions that is desk shaped. very good for playing some of the less controller-friendly games. I got a half-keyboard with a joystick on the thumbrest that i havent used yet.
vxx@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Xbox Controller.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I have the 8bitdo Pro 2 and I love it. Works great with or without a custom config, but in my opinion the config I use makes it worth it for the price.
RacerX@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I went ahead and ordered the hall effect version of the Pro 2. Excited to try it out!
morgan_423@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I second the recent PlayStation controllers. My friend gave me an extra PS4 controller he had and it’s basically a Deck controller minus the back buttons and a track pad. Works fine for most games I play with it, but I’m primarily a M&K guy.
Aeri@lemmy.world 1 month ago
That’s how all products should be
The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org 1 month ago
I got one to replace the Xbox that I’ve had hooked up to my tv’s since gen 1… absolutely no regrets.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 month ago
Isn’t that generally how Valve operates on the whole anyway? They don’t set out to make products; they just do what they want and if they actually finish it, they sell it.
Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 1 month ago
I remember one of my first thoughts on the Deck was “even if this fails commercially or can’t play any new games, I want it for old games and emulation. Even if it goes nowhere else, it would be worth it for me.”
stardust@lemmy.ca 1 month ago
It ended up being more powerful than I thought it would be. I thought I’d just be playing some retro 2d games and really old 3d games, but it ended up running some new titles better than expected to be able to play them on the Deck.
Toribor@corndog.social 1 month ago
Running games at 800p targeting 40fps is a lot more viable than I would have expected just looking at the numbers. It looks great for a display that size and 40fps feels like it’s a lot closer to 60fps than it really is.
I get why people using it as their primary gaming device would want more power but as a secondary device for me it’s stellar.
M600@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Last night, I was playing cyberpunk without any problems. That’s pretty insane in my opinion.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I never would’ve expected a handheld console that could comfortably play Baldurs Gate 3 on an airplane. I got it for indie games, but it’s expanded beyond that for me
thingsiplay@beehaw.org 1 month ago
That’s me. Also it was based on Linux, so its not a waste of hardware, because I know a Linux operating system works well with it. I wasn’t even expecting it to play new AAA games developed for the newest console generations.
missphant@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
This is so important, especially as we live in an age where tech being churned out that ends up as paperweight is the norm. Being solidified in the Linux kernel we know this thing will live on for decades until in 2080 they will pull the plug on the x86 architecture and you’ll be one of the 3 people still around to remember it